# Sail with the Whale
**URL:** https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755
**Category:** SAIL
**Tags:** rejected, revision-posted
**Created:** [November 28, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755 "2023-11-28T12:51:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Sen-Com](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/Sen-Com)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/1 "2023-11-28T12:51:12Z")
# Sail with the Whale
## Proposal Summary
We request the Osmosis Community’s support to intensify the collaboration with the RIDE Group and SAIL with the Whale. We plan to turbocharge Osmosis’ growth, strengthen its ecosystem, and expand the utility of its native token, OSMO. We respectfully ask the community to allocate five million OSMO tokens to RIDE Group’s initiatives. Notably, this is a liquidity injection, not a grant. The community will always control the allocated funds. To further align interests with the community, yet not as part of this proposal, the Migaloo Foundation would like to signal its willingness to engage in an OTC deal with the Osmosis community.
## About the RIDE Program
The RIDE Group is a collaborative venture of teams engaged in the White Whale RIDE Program. With a focus on building applications across multiple chains, protocols can mitigate risks associated with blockchains and open access to diverse markets, prosperous communities, liquidity resources, and more. You can find more information about the RIDE Program [here](https://medium.com/@whitewhaleterra/the-white-whale-ride-program-unlocking-the-power-of-the-interchain-aa16d5d50dd).
## About the SAIL Program
The SAIL Program, a successor to the RIDE Program, focuses on propelling the growth of blockchain ecosystems. It offers access to crucial applications, expansive communities, and liquidity. Enrolling in the SAIL Program offers premium access to RIDE participants’ offerings and many other benefits. More details are available [here](https://medium.com/@whitewhaleterra/the-white-whale-sail-program-accelerating-ambitious-blockchain-growth-64d59fe46104).
## Benefits of this Collaboration
Joining SAIL ensures sustained support from the RIDE Group and promises growth and enhanced utility for Osmosis. As part of our commitment to growth, our short- to medium-term objectives include the following:
- White Whale will
- Deploy the White Whale Protocol on Osmosis.
- Create an OSMO/ampOSMO and an OSMO/boneOSMO pool on the White Whale Protocol on Osmosis.
- Deploy White Whales arbitrage bots to Osmosis.
- Implement a taker fee, directing 0.1% of all trading volume to OSMO stakers.
- Backbone Labs will
- Deploy its NFT-Marketplace on Osmosis.
- Deploy its p2p NFT Trading Platform on Osmosis.
- Deploy its liquid-staking Protocol on Osmosis.
- Include Osmosis in its $SOUL airdrop.
- Launch multiple NFT collections on Osmosis.
- Eris Protocol will
- Deploy its slow-burn arbitrage protocol on Osmosis.
- Include Osmosis in its $ERIS airdrop.
- Ginkou will
- List ampOSMO and boneOSMO on its lending and borrowing platform on Migaloo.
- Racoon.Bet will
- Deploy Racoon.Bet’s gaming platform and exclusive game(s) on Osmosis.
- Racoon.Bet will direct 1% of its monthly profits to OSMO stakers.
The requested funds will undergo liquid staking and pooling on the White Whale Protocol on Osmosis. Specifically, 1.25 million will be staked via the Eris Protocol, yielding ampOSMO, and another 1.25 million through Backbone Labs, resulting in boneOSMO. The liquid-staked tokens will be combined with the remaining 2.5 million tokens and then placed into liquidity pools. This strategy guarantees that the community controls the funds and that all tokens remain on the White Whale Protocol on Osmosis, boosting its TVL and volume. The taker fee will further ensure that OSMO stakers benefit at every trade.
## Call to Action
Embracing the SAIL Program opens doors for unprecedented growth and innovation for Osmosis. It will bring more liquidity, a vibrant ecosystem of builders, and innovative products from LST-stabilizing arbitrage vaults to NFT-FI Systems. We urge the Osmosis community to endorse this proposal, setting the stage for a thriving and innovative future.
---
### Author:  [@LeonoorsCryptoman](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/LeonoorsCryptoman)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/2 "2023-11-28T16:29:16Z")
As far as I am aware this has been done with other projects already, right?
Can you share a bit more insight in what it meant for those projects and similar deals?
---
### Author:  [@Teslagrinder](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/Teslagrinder)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/3 "2023-11-28T16:54:46Z")
```
this is a great Prop. full support as a Osmo staker this will continue to allow Osmosis to reach new markets and users, [WW Linktree](https://linktr.ee/white_whale) here is Link for the WW Linktree
```
[White Whale | Linktree](https://linktr.ee/white_whale)
---
### Author:  [@RoboMcGobo](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/RoboMcGobo)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/4 "2023-11-28T19:08:53Z")
Heya @Sen-Com !
Thanks for the post.
I have a few questions about the 5 million OSMO you’re asking for and about the deployments:
1. Last time we spoke about deploying White Whale on Osmosis, you mentioned that White Whale liquidity pools could be used by arb bots to circumvent the ProtoRev module and prevent that module from collecting as much revenue. @sunnya97 has said in another post that this isn’t possible. Can you explain here whether this will be possible, and if so, how? I’ve had like 4 conversations about this now and nobody has really been able to give a complete answer to this 😅 Feels like this is important in deciding whether to add White Whale to the chain.
2. Eris Protocol has already had a smaller proposal for liquidity get shot down. [Deploy 2M OSMO to the ampOSMO/OSMO Pool](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/deploy-2m-osmo-to-the-amposmo-osmo-pool/385). This would be a larger community pool spend ask than they asked for at the time, and nothing has really changed since then. In fact Osmosis is slightly worse off by this proposal because the liqudiity pools won’t exist on the main Osmosis trading protocol. What incentive does the Osmosis community have to fund them with even more OSMO now? Maybe Eris could redirect a portion of its revenues to OSMO stakers to signal alignment with the protocol?
3. Apart from the taker fee that Osmosis would get (which already exists on Osmosis pools), is there a benefit to Osmosis in allowing competing liquidity pools to exist on the protocol? I anticipate maybe some slightly increased volume from liquidations going through those pools, and the taker fee from that? White Whale collects real yield revenue as well I think? Maybe some of this could be shared with Osmosis as well to account for any lost protorev revenue or trading volume?
4. Kinda related to question 3, but what other pools apart from ampOSMO / OSMO and boneOSMO / OSMO would be deployed on the White Whale protocol on Osmosis?
General feeling so far is that this should be batched into multiple proposals, in case governance wants certain integrations like White Whale, Backbone, and Racoon but not other protocols like Eris (which has already been denied a previous community spend prop).
---
### Author:  [@JohnnyWyles](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/JohnnyWyles)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 12:32pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/5 "2023-11-29T12:32:14Z")
On the batching - I have an opposing view here, in that I think the batching works in its favour since this is a collection of allied products that will be deploying all at once and bringing more value than each alone.
I also had concerns about the 2.5M spend for ERIS when the 2M was already rejected but being part of a suite of products makes the deployment more valuable than before.
So far I am very much on the fence since I believe that the RIDE group, with a solid TVL base to work from, could deploy some interesting products on Osmosis, but this is also a substantial increase in TVL under management.
> **[DefiLlama](https://defillama.com/chain/Migaloo)**
>
> DefiLlama is a DeFi TVL aggregator. It is committed to providing accurate data without ads or sponsored content, as well as transparency.
Hope you get those questions answered too 🙂
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### Author:  [@RoboMcGobo](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/RoboMcGobo)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/6 "2023-11-29T16:25:32Z")
I didn’t realize there was only $1m in TVL on white whale. This feels not right somehow? I’ll go check their site in a bit. I always take TVL on defillama with a grain of salt these days 😅
But if this is the case, maybe starting with a smaller ask or, ideally, increasing the revenue share they bring to Osmosis in exchange for this liquidity is the way to go here.
I think it makes sense for Osmosis to be opinionated on things like revenue when we’re dealing with competing products that want to launch on the protocol.
Hoping that the proposers are willing to engage with governance on these questions before going on chain!
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### Author:  [@Winfred](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/Winfred)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/7 "2023-11-30T00:08:43Z")
I prematurely liked this post, I’d like to point out that my like is no longer an endorsement of the prop (influenced by some interactions I’ve seen on Twitter tonight).
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### Author:  [@kopeboy](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/kopeboy)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2023, 9:18am UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/8 "2023-11-30T09:18:00Z")
Guys, the content is nice, but the ask seems TOO MUCH by applying some common business sense and looking at the numbers. Please look for example to this analysis (again by Robo) [https://twitter.com/RoboMcGobo/status/1730031103841554781](https://twitter.com/RoboMcGobo/status/1730031103841554781)
If you disagree, please provide some calculations that would justify this proposal’s spend with either:
- estimation of return on the investment to OSMO token holders,
- the actual cost (with evidence) of the proposal
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### Author:  [@Seppmos](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/Seppmos)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2023, 11:05am UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/9 "2023-11-30T11:05:44Z")
Fully agree here, the ask seems way too much.
We should start off with max 1M OSMO and see how it goes. The ask can always be increased in a second moment.
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### Author:  [@Razzien](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/Razzien)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/10 "2023-11-30T16:08:50Z")
I think is a great idea.
Osmosis isnt giving anything to white whale, Osmosis will keep the liquidity.
This is great for both the ride group and osmosis!
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### Author:  [@LeonoorsCryptoman](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/LeonoorsCryptoman)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/11 "2023-11-30T19:09:48Z")
Funny to see that we are having a discussion of the spend being to big while we passed a proposal for 20M OSMO without blinking on stOSMO.
I am glad however that there is (finally) a call for a policy regarding these spends. So my vote on this one will be “No” until we have that policy in place and we can stick to the process.
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### Author:  [@H0lyF0lly](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/H0lyF0lly)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/12 "2023-11-30T21:25:21Z")
There is a natural synergy between the $Osmo and $Whale communities and this could be the single greatest interchain co-operation in the Cosmos. The funds will not disappear from the Osmosis community but serve to create cross-flows of capital that are waiting to take place. This is a wise investment for long term growth.
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### Author:  [@luisqa](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/luisqa)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 1:19am UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/13 "2023-12-01T01:19:15Z")
I’ve shared my thoughts on twitter but will repeat them here.
I think by giving Stride 20M tokens for a swap pool, the community has agreed to grant these protocols liquidity with a certain level of utility. I believe what is being offered by WW right now has significantly more utility for Osmosis than the 20M LP.
Points that would need to be improved/addressed imo to make this an easy yes for most.
Make the multisig for managing this funds majority owned by Osmosis members/validators. There should be an easy to execute way to claw back the funds if requested by the community.
Share here what are the current stats of the protocol to better understand the benefits to WhiteWhale and to Osmosis.
Is there a fee from liquid staking with ERIS? Would be ideal to share some insights into the products that would be deployed.
What are the risks associated with ERIS for those that aren’t aware? [Deploy 2M OSMO to the ampOSMO/OSMO Pool](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/deploy-2m-osmo-to-the-amposmo-osmo-pool/385) previous proposal for reference.
For now we are leaning to yes but would like more information to share with others.
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### Author:  [@JohnnyWyles](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/JohnnyWyles)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/14 "2023-12-01T10:52:23Z")
I most definitely kicked up a fuss about the size of the Stride spend 😅
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### Author:  [@MassiveMembrane](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/MassiveMembrane)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/15 "2023-12-02T19:18:43Z")
More Osmosis based members on the multisig is a good point same as the point of the significant size of the utility brought by Whale compared to the Stride spend.
Why even need a mutlsig? Why not a sub-dao?
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### Author:  [@RoboMcGobo](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/RoboMcGobo)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/16 "2023-12-03T20:57:42Z")
Respectfully disagree with all of this.
Using the stride spend as a reason to fund any protocol regardless of the value it offers is the height of folly. As i’ve pointed out on twitter, WW has very little activity, liquidity or volume. The revenue share to Osmosis from all of these protocols combined will be effectively 0.
Stride has provided millions of dollars in incentives to Osmosis users in LP incentives, is the second largest liquidity partner for the chain behind Axelar (even excluding the osmo POL), and has facilitated more value in osmo lending integrations than all of these protocols’ TVL combined. I’m struggling to see how this integration offers more utility?
The argument that there’s some kind of precedent that has been set is also untrue, as Eris’ first attempt at a POL prop failed after the Stride spend passed. Osmosis should still try to be discerning about the protocols it partners with.
As far as the protocol’s stats. I did a thread on this. [https://twitter.com/RoboMcGobo/status/1730031103841554781](https://twitter.com/RoboMcGobo/status/1730031103841554781)
There’s very little activity, and nearly all of their liquidity comes from community pool POL spends like this one.
I understand if people disagree with the stride spend, but imo it’s imperative to keep proposal decisions independent of eachother and evaluate each protocol on their own merits.
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### Author:  [@Razzien](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/Razzien)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2023, 11:29am UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/17 "2023-12-04T11:29:04Z")
I respectfully disagree with you also.
This prop will bring a nft market to osmosis and most of the fees from lst from bosmo will be used to insitivised the pool or to pay to the nft collection.
Also osmosis need to have competition right now only was one lst needs more to help inovation.
Also osmosis whats to be the hub from all trade in Cosmos for that needs it’s comunities to see and be alighned with… Not be pushed way.
There is one big difference between stride and white whale. In case of stride was a grant stride recived the 20M Osmo, in case from WW own’t be all funds will be still from the comunnity any airdrops that funds generate will be from the community on oposition from stride.
This prop brings lots of utility and as no cost for osmosis chain because osmo community keeps the onwership of it’s osmo…
Other thing would be great, WW as flash loans and the ww flash loans could be integrated in osmosis dex, that would help allot.
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### Author:  [@luisqa](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/luisqa)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2023, 1:29pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/18 "2023-12-04T13:29:02Z")
There is literally only upside from this proposal, the 10% LSD fee that stride keeps to itself Eris redistributes to users. Instead of extracting value to stride stakers the fee will further feed into Osmosis volume/fees. This will bring so much utility with very little cost in comparison. Worst case scenario we claw it back, best case we bring a lot of utility on chain.
Lets try to be objective about this and avoid any kind of heavy bias.
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### Author:  [@Seppmos](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/Seppmos)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/19 "2023-12-04T14:54:40Z")
Here a few points:
- I don’t see the point of having another LST provider for the $OSMO token with boneOSMO and ampOSMO. It confuses users and leads to bad UX.
- Asking for 5 million $OSMO is an outrageous ask for an pretty unknown protocol respectively program with very low TVL and trading activity.
- I don’t think that Osmosis should host gambling platforms like Racoon.Bet and the 1% revenue share proposed is definitely not worth the risk of harming the Osmosis brand.
@Racoon.Bet guys: A few days ago, Sunny shared a X post where he was looking for CW developers to deploy a game he had in mind on Osmosis. You guys could help with that first, before putting your entire gaming platform on the chain.
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### Author:  [@LeonoorsCryptoman](https://forum.osmosis.zone/u/LeonoorsCryptoman)
#### Post date: [December 4, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755/20 "2023-12-04T19:34:23Z")
Would it be an adviseable adjustment to:
- change the size of the request as starting point
- add an evaluation period
- add targets and KPI’s to measure success
- add that the remainder of the request is released when targets are met?
That way we get a compromise where the grant could be given, but partially initially. The protocol can prove itself and if proven the rest can be released.
[Next page](https://forum.osmosis.zone/t/sail-with-the-whale/755.md?page=2)